Curse

Effendi Westland · Jan 08, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

My thoughts on mission running:

It feeds itself, with people paying for a run through the mission if they can't make it themselves the following things happen:

1 - Non-practical builds will get through the game without adjustment

example:
3 wa/mo's, 1 monk, 1 ele and a ranger try lets say thirsty river. One of the wa/mo's insists on being a smiter (using smiting staff), 1 thinks he's kinda a protector (but uses a sword) and the third warrior doesn't like adrineline cuz you can't use it right away. The monk is a typical healing monk, the ele a typcial fire one, and the ranger hasn't found a way to do good dmg yet, but is also not interrupting or trapping.

Needless to say that this group will probably not make it, the dmg output is just way too low to be able to slice through this. However instead of modifying their build and trying again (which i tend to do, unless i've noticed that my part was going well), they decide to pay a runner. The result is that these non-practical builds now get the mission done, but at the next heavy fighting mission they will undoubtelly end up with the same problems.

2 - players who have not learnt how to cooperate will get by the mission.

Not being able to cooperate and work as a team works against you as much as the monsters will, those with no skill in this department won't learn better behaviour by running. It really bothers me if people cant attack the same target when you get to the dragons lair mission, pinging on the map and saying "all attack same target" when they are a warrior and should be calling targets with ctrl.

3 - players have a hard time forming a party.

If there was no running, the noobs would eventually have to adjust, or quit playing. If they adjust they will make it easier for those who just reached the mission to find parties to team up with.

And because of the running, the avarage time devoted to each mission is way less, this also reduces chances for others of finding a party, forcing them to be run to in some cases.

4 - not a bad thing as such, but skilled players get runs too, they just dont wanna bother with the hassle of a particular mission for the 4th time (or something). By their being run, they will not share their experience with other players and be in a party where everybody needs the mission, adding to point 3.

I have never had troubles with missions, just with some PUGs, however I am quite experienced and can spot a bad PUG real quick. I ussualy play with a mate of mine (who is somewhat less experienced in spotting bad PUGs, but he's learning real quick now he's in the final stages of the game), the two of us always have good builds for any given mission, or quickly adjust if we fail. But for new players this is alot more difficult....my conclusion is quite simple, running has no effect on the experienced player, but for the new player it will make the game much more difficult, their hard earned cash will go to paying runners instead of buying new armor, i remember my first char, and this is basically a poor mans game until you get a lvl 20 char in the latter part of the game.

So my advice for new players:
1 - If the party takes a long time killing stuff, look for a new party (and check your own build)

2 - If the leader is brining in loads and loads of warriors, don't bother warriors are not the damage dealers in the game unless it's a very good build with good items. Elementalists, Necro's and mesmer usually outdamage the warrior.

3 - If the party members insist on kicking the mesmer "cause he does no dmg" this is also a sign of less experience, as mesmers can make things alot easier with their interruot and hex capabilities.

4 - If your reading this, you know your way to the forum, look around for guides on how to form your own PUG, they greatly help

This will help greatly in the desert missions and beyond.

Me NoFat · Jan 08, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

There is nothing wrong with paying a runner for Thirsty....

I can also say that it is an awesome site watching one of the LBS memebers (not me) that can solo this mission. Almost worth the admission to watch a W solo Thiristy

Effendi Westland · Jan 08, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me NoFat

There is nothing wrong with paying a runner for Thirsty....

I can also say that it is an awesome site watching one of the LBS memebers (not me) that can solo this mission. Almost worth the admission to watch a W solo Thiristy

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm also talking in general, not just thirsty.

If you'd like to give reasons for it being a good thing, maybe you can convince me, that one line however, does not.

Paying to watch it, lol, there are vids of ppl soloing stuff all over the place.

But I notice you are from a runners guild, so I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Me NoFat · Jan 08, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm also talking in general, not just thirsty.

If you'd like to give reasons for it being a good thing, maybe you can convince me, that one line however, does not.

Paying to watch it, lol, there are vids of ppl soloing stuff all over the place.

But I notice you are from a runners guild, so I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.

1. You have been through the game with more than 2 toons and u dont want to play every area.

2. You want to save money by not buying every armor upgrade from a-droks.

3. You want to skip the PuGs that are filled with horrible players and you can't hench the area.

4. When you have more than enough money to afford anything why not run certain parts.

5. Being an LBS runner I can tell you that most of the people I run are not skipping over anything they have not already done the hard way more than one time or they wouldn't be able to pay the price we charge.

I am sure there are more reasons....like filling up my storage with money

but I am a little tired now.

As far as paying to watch it....point me to a video of someone soloing thirsty that is not from LBS and you might have a point. If you have never seen it then you might think it is impossible. Paying for it is just like paying for a movie in my opinion. It is entertaining and every once in awhile it changes your perspective on the impossible.

Racthoh · Jan 08, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

The defense of "I've done this before I can just skip it" is getting stale. Yes, you've done it before, but were you the same profession using the same skills? Use the storyline to understand the basics of a profession, understand what skills compliment each other.

I don't care what anyone says, you run through the game and get power leveled you're not going to know how to play that character. You don't know how to use algebra if you can't do basic addition.

The Herbalizer · Jan 08, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

The defense of "I've done this before I can just skip it" is getting stale. Yes, you've done it before, but were you the same profession using the same skills? Use the storyline to understand the basics of a profession, understand what skills compliment each other.

I don't care what anyone says, you run through the game and get power leveled you're not going to know how to play that character. You don't know how to use algebra if you can't do basic addition.

I had my monk ran through the game and power lvled and then ascended. And all it will ever do is be a 55 monk. I do not see why i should go through the entire game learning all the different monk skills when i have no intrest in doing anything other than farm.

Same with my minion master i have no intention of doing anything other than being a minion master. I have learnt how to use one and i have not played through the game with it.

Effendi Westland · Jan 08, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me NoFat

1. You have been through the game with more than 2 toons and u dont want to play every area.

2. You want to save money by not buying every armor upgrade from a-droks.

3. You want to skip the PuGs that are filled with horrible players and you can't hench the area.

4. When you have more than enough money to afford anything why not run certain parts.

5. Being an LBS runner I can tell you that most of the people I run are not skipping over anything they have not already done the hard way more than one time or they wouldn't be able to pay the price we charge.

I am sure there are more reasons....like filling up my storage with money

but I am a little tired now.

As far as paying to watch it....point me to a video of someone soloing thirsty that is not from LBS and you might have a point. If you have never seen it then you might think it is impossible. Paying for it is just like paying for a movie in my opinion. It is entertaining and every once in awhile it changes your perspective on the impossible.

Fair enough mate.... we can aggree to disaggree then, but now I at least know your arguments and I can identify those reasons, it's just not who i am and how I play.

Angel Develin · Jan 08, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

OK some I do agree that a run is fine to have, but a mission?? whay would you finish the game make a new char and just run the missions? is it to hard? so dont play it, is it boaring? find a way to do it with lots of fun or just ask guild members, whay would u make a char and just run all missions?? I realy dont get it. running to droknar is ok with me if u dont want to pay more for the armour.
Whats the fun of running the game? to do what? are there bad players you dont like to get in a team with, the game is over run with them deal with it. I have nothing against ppl that do the running, hey they have found a way to earn cash and its better then farming, but what happend to the old fashion xploring or just go with a team and see what the mission realy has, like hidden places or so?? I know that there are lots of ppl that only do the base line of a mission and not clear the map on that mission, I think this is more fun this way.
Making a monk only for farming?? whay not do all missions, get all skills and then have 2 armours 1 for farming and 1 for mission if needed?? now u have only a farming monk.
And for ppl that disaggree with me, this is just my opinion about it

have fun all.

Draeco_Smash · Jan 08, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

The defense of "I've done this before I can just skip it" is getting stale. Yes, you've done it before, but were you the same profession using the same skills? Use the storyline to understand the basics of a profession, understand what skills compliment each other.

I don't care what anyone says, you run through the game and get power leveled you're not going to know how to play that character. You don't know how to use algebra if you can't do basic addition.

God knows that I do agree with you.... You certainly are right in that sense... I just can't justify playin the high amount of hours considering I can't commit that much in a week...

I can commit about 6-7 hours a week... on a good one, due to responsibilities in my life... I don't feel that I should be forced to repeat the same missions over and over... sucking the limited hours out of my gaming life

... i hope u understand where i am comming from

Excer · Jan 08, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I don't care what anyone says, you run through the game and get power leveled you're not going to know how to play that character. You don't know how to use algebra if you can't do basic addition.

I'm gonna have to disagree with this one. If you are even somewhat experienced, most builds for PvE are quite easy to figure out and use. So after making 2-3 characters and playing through the entire game with them, you probably know how most builds work. This is where people start making characters just for farming or stuff like that. So what's the point of gaining expierience in missions? Surely no one uses a farming build to do missions

Mostly people just get run so they can get to the later part of the game faster to make money. You know the old saying, "time is money"

Btw, as a runner, I can also testify to the fact that most new players dont get runs.

Jack Lost · Jan 08, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

all right heres my opinion on this-
all you guys are talking about how people after theyre 4 or 6 chars just start making chars to make money.. ive played through the game 4 times and i still play through the missions. sure i get ran to droks then i go back and do them. this way i keep a little extra gold, get to know people better, lvl my char more. also i think the missions are boring people out is that no one watches the cutscenes anymore. all people do now in missions is kill kill and kill.

Racthoh · Jan 08, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

It probably depends on what extreme you go from that gave me the angle that I go from. My first character was a warrior, my second a monk. One runs first into combat and beats the snot out of anything that comes in its way. The other sits in the backlines and needs to stare blankly at those red bars in the corner of the screen.

In that sense... I doubt you would be a very good monk if you jump into the harder missions not knowing how manage energy and such. Go through the same as an ele then a necro... well, you're generally doing the same thing with some exceptions. It's probably easier to make that transition when you're already used to one form of playstyle.

I guess I can't argue against someone's way of playing, afterall Anet doesn't exaclty support farming and that's all I do.

xxreaper008 · Jan 08, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

i can solo this run with my warrior, necromancer, and monk

Yotsuba · Jan 09, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Yeah people run it, there's even a thread in Services for it:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=87765

And since there seems to be alot of anti-runner sentiment out here, Fansite Friday # 59: http://www.guildwars.com/community/f...-friday59.html

Eder · Jan 09, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

This thread's topic is kinda stupid. How is running Thirsty River any different from any of the other runs that have been around for, oh, say, since the freaking game came out?

I mean, if you're just gonna make another generic "OMG RUNNING SUCKS! WTF PLAY THE GAME!" thread, let's at least be honest about it.

Akhilleus · Jan 09, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

the key to running thirsty is that the different "legions" fight each other if you get them in the same aggro. so get the "soldiers" together and you get a few minutes of free-hacking to take down the priest and hero.
it makes the mission infinitly easier, and allows it to not only be run but solo'd (without henches, if needs be).

coolsti · Jan 09, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

People who get run, particularly who get missions run for them are wimps! There, I said it. Its my opinion. No respect for you. If you don't have the time to play the game, or if you don't have the time or patience to learn how to do the mission or to find a decent group to do it with, then you shouldn't be logging on in the first place. Play the game, don't run it, you will feel happier about it afterwards.

Aejorii · Jan 09, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

I think I'll run it and be happier, kthnx.

A lot of people forget that this is a RPG. I am roleplaying a character that has a lot of help.

And yes, I don't have time to listen to Rurik babble about this glory days and his antics. If you jokers are going to bash runners, are you also going to bash unlocking skills through faction? I unlocked all my ele, necro, and mes skills that way with out ever making those characters.
zomg nub play teh game to do quest to unlock skills noob frek u learn teh charcters n skilz tht way

Red Sonya · Jan 09, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

[who can blame them when people laugh at them and ridicule them for being noobs with no Droks armour.]

Yeah and those people laughing at them are usually the RUNNERS! Nice scam, laugh at noobies so they will run the content and scamming runners get paid.

I'm still all for locking that south door of Beacons Perch. That will at least make the run to Droks a longggggggg one and take a lot more time and plat than the player thinks it's worth.

Everyone shouldn't be level 20 playing nothing but the high zones. That's why there is content for "EACH" character you play. You should have to work through the content just like DIABLO or DIABLO II and there should be level limits on who you can group with. That'll stop the running.

[[If you jokers are going to bash runners, are you also going to bash unlocking skills through faction? I unlocked all my ele, necro, and mes skills that way with out ever making those characters.
zomg nub play teh game to do quest to unlock skills noob frek u learn teh charcters n skilz tht way]]

As far as PVP this is a seperate game and issue altogether since you CAN make a level 20 the very first day. I don't even think there should be any faction. You should have access to all the skills and all the weapons and all the upgrades from the start, PVP is about SKILL and INTELLIGENCE, not about your equipment (or it shouldn't be, because of the way they are doing it, it forces players to work to catch up to the other competitive guilds). At least it's a lot better now in that the game doesn't force you to play the PVE game, but, if you are going to play the PVE game then you should play it by PVE standards, building up your character and equipment over time, not in a few hours of play and/or run to Droks so you can come back to newbie arenas and cause grief.

There are four basic reasons for running, to cause grief or get to some solo build someone has discovered and they want to copy the template and solo UW/FOW. The next being able to compete in the GW's with a PVE built up character, though this is really silly since it's the longgggg way of doing this when one could just use a premade and get all the skills and upgrades they want by just gaining faction points. And the last building a "RUNNER for $$" character so they can get plat the easy way instead of farming for it.

I've also recently been informed that RUNNERS for $$ are from many of these EBAY farm houses, what yah gonna do about that now GAILE?? Yall wanna stop EBAYers, so, you need to stop these RUNNERS for $$ as well. They are a LARGE portion of the ebay sweatshops now since you been concentrating on bots moreso than looking at the whole.

Hockster · Jan 09, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

I've also recently been informed that RUNNERS for $$ are from many of these EBAY farm houses, what yah gonna do about that now GAILE?? Yall wanna stop EBAYers, so, you need to stop these RUNNERS for $$ as well. They are a LARGE portion of the ebay sweatshops now since you been concentrating on bots moreso than looking at the whole.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read here. Who is your "informer"? Unless yu have high paying clientelle, there are so many runners it's hard to make a lot of gold. All you have to do is sit in any of the popular run portals and see how many run for tips, or rediculously small amounts.

Closing Beacons to Droks won't stop anything. All you have to do is run to Sanctum, do the mission, and then the 3 desert missions. Those 4 are extremely easy. It takes very little effort to beat the dopple at level 10 or so. Dragons Lair is another easy mission to complete. Boom, you're at Droks. But you just paid me 150K to get there instead of 5K for the run from Beacons.

Hmm, maybe you actually had a good idea after all. Or not.